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cliff, he has done nothing to demonstrate it. the position of congressman tom cole, that the party should agree immediately to extend the bush tax rates for americans making less than $250,000 a year is the best of a bunch of bad choices for the gop. >> the g 0 op is boxed in saying it's a terrible position because by default democrats get what they want. a big bargaining chip for house republicans is they need congress to raise the debt ceiling before the end of february when analysts estimate the treasury would run out of options and hit the borrowing cap. no deal is reached. closer to the deadline and today they will argue that's bad for business. help in supporting an approach without drama or delay a. >> we can't be going through another debt crisis, debt ceiling crisis like in 2011. that has to be dealt with. >> the president of the business roundtable has said congress should raise the debt ceiling enough for the next five years to avoid uncertainty. clearly that's something that won't happen. short term spending cuts shou
cliff, he has done nothing to demonstrate it. the position of congressman tom cole, that the party should agree immediately to extend the bush tax rates for americans making less than $250,000 a year is the best of a bunch of bad choices for the gop. >> the g 0 op is boxed in saying it's a terrible position because by default democrats get what they want. a big bargaining chip for house republicans is they need congress to raise the debt ceiling before the end of february when analysts...
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and house speaker john maynard discuss and the fiscal cliff and president barack obama suppresses his case today for a tax hike to help reduce the deficit. we are not insisting on rates just out of spite or any kind of partisan victory but rather because we need to raise a certain amount of revenue. >> and he made that pitch to several wealthy ceos he wants to raise taxes on the top 2 percent of income earners and he believes this will help raise the government's 16 trillion dollar debt coupled with spending cuts but the republican controlled house says the president has not responded to their latest proposal. >> i think we made a good-faith offer to avert the fiscal crisis and that offer included significant spending cuts and reforms and it included additional revenue and frankly it was the balanced approach mr. president has been asking for. erick kanter announced today there will be no adjournment into a credible solution to the fiscal cliff is found. >> house lawmakers proposed a bill today they claim will bring the costs under control and provide a safe retirement, it creates two
and house speaker john maynard discuss and the fiscal cliff and president barack obama suppresses his case today for a tax hike to help reduce the deficit. we are not insisting on rates just out of spite or any kind of partisan victory but rather because we need to raise a certain amount of revenue. >> and he made that pitch to several wealthy ceos he wants to raise taxes on the top 2 percent of income earners and he believes this will help raise the government's 16 trillion dollar debt...
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if there's a deal on the fiscal cliff, if there's going to be a deal before january 1st, there will be rate increases of some sort. boehner can't be the guy to lead republicans to that, because they don't trust him and looking for sign of a sellout. what he needs to do here, this goes to the end of the month because boehner has to wait and put up the fight and make it look like he's putting up the filt. other conservatives say it's time to go. >> who would that be? >> people on talk radio and fox news and "wall street journal." >> who in washington would lead that? >> i think the tea partiers in the house are responsive to that information network. that's what happened with -- here's the key. last year the payroll tax was coming up for expiration at end of last year. obama said i wanted it extended for 2012. republicans at first said no, and boehner had to say no with them. when the deadline came last christmas, around last christmas republicans started to panic but polls showed people would blame them. all of a sudden those voices said let's not have this fight now. >> he's banking on
if there's a deal on the fiscal cliff, if there's going to be a deal before january 1st, there will be rate increases of some sort. boehner can't be the guy to lead republicans to that, because they don't trust him and looking for sign of a sellout. what he needs to do here, this goes to the end of the month because boehner has to wait and put up the fight and make it look like he's putting up the filt. other conservatives say it's time to go. >> who would that be? >> people on talk...
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Nov 30, 2012
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called the fiscal split or the fiscal cliff because president obama's plan to avoid the fiscal cliff is not exactly flying with republicans. 32 days now count with me 32 tax rates soar, spending cuts automatically kick in and keep in mind there is a date that we're watching also before this, congress break for the holidays in all of 14 days. >> so to review the president's plan calls for $1.6 trillion in tax hikes, $50 billion in new stimulus spending, and $400 billion in unspecified cuts. the president for himself he's heading to a manufacturing plant in pennsylvania today to try to sell that idea. house speaker john boehner's reaction was essentially, get serious. so we want to talk about the numbers behind this. we're going to bring in ken rogoff, professor of economics and public policy at harvard university. you heard the specifics of the plan, $1.6 trillion in new taxes, $400 billion in unspecified cuts, $50 billion in new stimulus. how does this sound to you? >> well, it certainly sounds like a plan. and i do think we have to see some mix of higher revenues starting now and fr
called the fiscal split or the fiscal cliff because president obama's plan to avoid the fiscal cliff is not exactly flying with republicans. 32 days now count with me 32 tax rates soar, spending cuts automatically kick in and keep in mind there is a date that we're watching also before this, congress break for the holidays in all of 14 days. >> so to review the president's plan calls for $1.6 trillion in tax hikes, $50 billion in new stimulus spending, and $400 billion in unspecified...
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known as the fiscal cliff. >> president obama is sending tim geithner to the hill today to meet with multiple congress ohhal leaders. i want to bring in senator john barrasso, republican from wyoming. senator, good to see you. good morning. >> thanks for having me. >> let's begin with something that's been reported on by the wall street journal. which is something we heard a couple days ago. the fact that the president now appears to be flexible when it comes to the top 2%. quote, president obama signalled he wouldn'tnsist tax rates on upper income americans rise to clinton era peaks as part of a deficit reduction deal. the white house's flexibility first described by democrat erskine bowles after meetings with mr. obama and others confirmed by administration officials could envision tax rates increase from their current levels but less than clinton era levels. would you agree to a deal, senator? call it in the middle. 37%. >> well, the problem with that is raising those tax rates on those folks really doesn't address the major problem which is the spending that's going on. >> let me
known as the fiscal cliff. >> president obama is sending tim geithner to the hill today to meet with multiple congress ohhal leaders. i want to bring in senator john barrasso, republican from wyoming. senator, good to see you. good morning. >> thanks for having me. >> let's begin with something that's been reported on by the wall street journal. which is something we heard a couple days ago. the fact that the president now appears to be flexible when it comes to the top 2%....
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the biggest issue that's causing the fiscal cliff is the tax rates going up on the middle class. especially in this time now when we're getting out of this recession. we're seeing some robust growth. we want the christmas sales to be good. if the middle class knew that they're going to keep their tax cut, it would put a smile on everybody's face. and both parties can take credit for it. why won't they do it? there's only one answer. they're obsessed with protecting billionaires and millionaires. it's a sad state of affairs. >> one thing that we've seen in the days leading up, at least through this week, that there has been optimism from both sides expressed by speaker boehner, also by the president, and also republican tom cole, congre congressman, seem to be on board. now we have conservatives like charles krauthammer putting out their pieces saying let's go over the fiscal cliff, let the president do this. then john cornyn, republican from texas, saying apparently the president wants us to go over the fiscal cliff. this is serious business, demanding higher taxes, more stimulus
the biggest issue that's causing the fiscal cliff is the tax rates going up on the middle class. especially in this time now when we're getting out of this recession. we're seeing some robust growth. we want the christmas sales to be good. if the middle class knew that they're going to keep their tax cut, it would put a smile on everybody's face. and both parties can take credit for it. why won't they do it? there's only one answer. they're obsessed with protecting billionaires and...
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whether political theater or political reality, there's more mention going over the fiscal cliff could go beyond hypothetical. >> there's clearly a chance. >> i think we're going over the cliff. it's pretty clear to me they've made a political calculation. >> if they are going to force higher rates on virtually all americans because they're unwilling to let tax rates go up on 2% of americans, then, you know, that's the choice they're going to have to make. >> emily joins us live from washington. emily, the zinger sound bites, they're all piling up. what is the actual strategy behind all this political theater? what are you hearing from the republicans and from the democrats? >> reporter: you know, less than a month out now from going over the fiscal cliff. even talk about political strategy sounds an awful lot like posturing. we heard it from secretary geithner who said republicans seem to be in a hard place on this, not knowing what to do next. speaker boehner said, look, democrats won the election but they seem to have forgotten that republicans still control the house. at this point
whether political theater or political reality, there's more mention going over the fiscal cliff could go beyond hypothetical. >> there's clearly a chance. >> i think we're going over the cliff. it's pretty clear to me they've made a political calculation. >> if they are going to force higher rates on virtually all americans because they're unwilling to let tax rates go up on 2% of americans, then, you know, that's the choice they're going to have to make. >> emily joins...
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finally this week, there is a much more serious potential issue on the table than the fiscal cliff, folks. secretary of state hillary clinton did an unusual thing and warned president assad there will be consequences if he crosses a line and uses chemical weapons. we know why. pentagon sources tell nbc news the syrian government has loaded seran gas a deadly nerve agent, into aerial bombs and is just waiting for a command from president assad to use it. this week u.s. intelligence detected that flurry of activity at chemical weapon sites. >> our concerns are an increasingly desperate assad regime might turn to chemical weapons or might lose control of them to one of the many groups that are now operating within syria. we have sent an unmistakable message that this would cross a red line and those responsible would are held to account. >> this morning in dublin a sign that the diplomacy is intensifying secretary clinton met with her counterpart, russian minister lab rov and a u.n. special envoy on the side of an international security conference she is taking part in. russia is one of syri
finally this week, there is a much more serious potential issue on the table than the fiscal cliff, folks. secretary of state hillary clinton did an unusual thing and warned president assad there will be consequences if he crosses a line and uses chemical weapons. we know why. pentagon sources tell nbc news the syrian government has loaded seran gas a deadly nerve agent, into aerial bombs and is just waiting for a command from president assad to use it. this week u.s. intelligence detected that...
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>> yeah. >> blake, if there is a deal to avoid the so-called fiscal cliff, could these jobs numbers get considerable better? >> i think so, but it's funny. the republicans are in a bit of a box here. their motivation is to say it's not so good. a lot of jobless people out there. we have a real problem. meanwhi meanwhile, we have fiscal cliff negotiations where the president wants stimulus mechanisms including an extension of unemployment insurance. they're like a doctor who diagnosed you with a severe ill sxns won't sign the precipitation to give you the medicine. they emphasize the joblessness problem, and they don't want to give you unemployment insurance and tell that to someone laid off sleeping in their car. >> with these jobs numbers, had hurricane sandy not struck how better would this report have been? >> a lot of this was construction job weakness. clearly, that will rebound. one of the unfortunate upsides of natural disaster is that you do, whether the states or federal governments do it or insurance companies, you have a lot of infrastructure spending as people rebuild from t
>> yeah. >> blake, if there is a deal to avoid the so-called fiscal cliff, could these jobs numbers get considerable better? >> i think so, but it's funny. the republicans are in a bit of a box here. their motivation is to say it's not so good. a lot of jobless people out there. we have a real problem. meanwhi meanwhile, we have fiscal cliff negotiations where the president wants stimulus mechanisms including an extension of unemployment insurance. they're like a doctor who...
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more on the fiscal cliff as americans on all levels have to prepare to take the tax hit. hope it doesn't, but i'm going to break it down next. ♪ gerri: i always like to give you the straight poop on everything, and, today, i'm concerned about the fiscal cliff. in the past two days, two very well-connected professional money managers have spoken to me about their trepidation their clients have about the expiration of the bush tax cuts and the cut backs on spending. money is worried, concernend many are selling as you've seen. to read the stories of the press on the fiscal cliff, well, you'd think change is on the horizon just 33 days away, well, it doesn't maer much. in fact, just sit back, relax. the fiscal cliff is not a big deal. i'll quote one here. it's unlikely all of these bad things happen or stay in effect for an extended period of time. pundits call if the fiscal cliff smoke that is, instead o a cliff, the rising support for junking the fiscal approach as confusing and renaming it the austerity crisis or bomb. that's it. according to the u.s. news and world rep
more on the fiscal cliff as americans on all levels have to prepare to take the tax hit. hope it doesn't, but i'm going to break it down next. ♪ gerri: i always like to give you the straight poop on everything, and, today, i'm concerned about the fiscal cliff. in the past two days, two very well-connected professional money managers have spoken to me about their trepidation their clients have about the expiration of the bush tax cuts and the cut backs on spending. money is worried, concernend...
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. >>> in raw politics, with the country one day closer to the fiscal cliff, president obama took his case to the public today. he used an event in pennsylvania to rachet up the pressure on republicans to freeze taxes for the middle class while allowing the tax rates on the wealthy to go up. >> if congress does nothing, every family in america will see their income taxes automatically go up on january 1st. that's sort of like the lump of coal you get for christmas. that's a scrooge christmas. >> in other words, the day after the white house puts its opening bid on the table, the president comes out swinging. that opening bid didn't have a whole lot of concessions in it to the republicans, and the republicans reacted as many would have predicted. they were mad. basically saying that offer was an insult. today, house speaker john boehner doubled down. >> it was not a serious proposal. and so right now, we're almost nowhere. >> that doesn't sound good. republican congressman lee terry of nebraska was just as succinct but how shall i say this? more colorful. he told the "omaha world heral
. >>> in raw politics, with the country one day closer to the fiscal cliff, president obama took his case to the public today. he used an event in pennsylvania to rachet up the pressure on republicans to freeze taxes for the middle class while allowing the tax rates on the wealthy to go up. >> if congress does nothing, every family in america will see their income taxes automatically go up on january 1st. that's sort of like the lump of coal you get for christmas. that's a...
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the president is answering questions about the fiscal cliff. how does that work? >> well, it's kind of interesting, andrea. we know that the white house has adopted a campaign-style way to sell the need to raise tax rates and generate more revenue from the wealthy. this is kind of in keeping of -- they have a couple minute video sent to reporters. this is another way to try and drive conversation via social media and amp up pressure on lawmakers to get republicans to capitulate. this is kind of one part i would say of a multi-front effort to adapt some of the tactics that clearly work for president obama in the campaign imported over to policy. they tried this with health care, andrea, back in 2009. it didn't work all that well. let's see if this operation works better. >> the other big twitter aannouncement today wa was @pontifx. the pope is going to start tweeting as of september 12th. >> he already has more followers than you and i and has been on for one day. >> it's amazing how things happen. >> god. >> back to the white house, jay carney said during the brie
the president is answering questions about the fiscal cliff. how does that work? >> well, it's kind of interesting, andrea. we know that the white house has adopted a campaign-style way to sell the need to raise tax rates and generate more revenue from the wealthy. this is kind of in keeping of -- they have a couple minute video sent to reporters. this is another way to try and drive conversation via social media and amp up pressure on lawmakers to get republicans to capitulate. this is...
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cliff. treasury secretary tim geithner is on capitol hill right now set to meet with nancy pelosi in less than an hour. earlier today geithner met behind closed doors with house speaker john boehner, senate majority leader harry reid and frank mcconnell. the word he used to describe the overall negotiations, disappointing. >> no substantive progress has been made in the talks between the white house and the house over the last two weeks. listen, this is not a game. jobs are on the line. the american economy is on the line. and this is a moment for adult leadership. campaign style rallies and one-sided leaks in the press are not the way to get things done here in washington. >> democrats today said they're confident a deal can be reached by christmas. but admit negotiations would need to pick up steam. as for senator reid, he says it's now up to the gop to make the next move. >> we're still waiting for a serious offer from the republicans. the president has made his proposal. we need a propos
cliff. treasury secretary tim geithner is on capitol hill right now set to meet with nancy pelosi in less than an hour. earlier today geithner met behind closed doors with house speaker john boehner, senate majority leader harry reid and frank mcconnell. the word he used to describe the overall negotiations, disappointing. >> no substantive progress has been made in the talks between the white house and the house over the last two weeks. listen, this is not a game. jobs are on the line....
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cliff. in just a few days at the end of the year. in their first discussions yesterday after a week's hiatus we are told there were no signs of progress and even a hardening of positions. in fact, earlier president obama discussed the stalemate with middle-class families. >> for them to be burdened unnecessarily because the democrats and republicans aren't coming together to solve this problem gives you a since of the costs involved in very personal terms. >> he showed what he is really after is assuming unprecedented power to spend taxpayer dollars without any limit at all. >> the major sticking points continue to be how to handle tax rates for wealthy americans, and also, what to do about reducing spending on entitlement programs like social security and medica medicare. >> aide between the president and the speaker of the house met and the talks basically went nowhere. according to one of the president's aide he said higher taxes of course on the wealthy. a deal must include permanent ext
cliff. in just a few days at the end of the year. in their first discussions yesterday after a week's hiatus we are told there were no signs of progress and even a hardening of positions. in fact, earlier president obama discussed the stalemate with middle-class families. >> for them to be burdened unnecessarily because the democrats and republicans aren't coming together to solve this problem gives you a since of the costs involved in very personal terms. >> he showed what he is...
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i think that fiscal cliff is just a big red herring. your district has the shortest life span in the country for women. the infant mortalithighest infay rate in the country. we follow mississippi. i think that is where you are leading the country. if the people of the united states want to see where you and the republican party -- come and look at your district. guest: i would be delighted to have people come and look at my district and then it is 14,000 farms and ranches with two military installations. 5 colleges and universities. 11 indian tribes. the best college football team in america. it is a very special place. i would argue with your statistics. i just won reelection with 68% of the vote. having said all that, the idea that the paul ryan budget is about getting rid of social programs is ntot so. it is about saving them. these programs are going bankrupt. all are going to have to be reformed. if the president gets every tax increase he is asking for, let's just assume that he did, it would not come close to solving the budgetar
i think that fiscal cliff is just a big red herring. your district has the shortest life span in the country for women. the infant mortalithighest infay rate in the country. we follow mississippi. i think that is where you are leading the country. if the people of the united states want to see where you and the republican party -- come and look at your district. guest: i would be delighted to have people come and look at my district and then it is 14,000 farms and ranches with two military...
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obama and the democrats get their way, doing the deal to avoid raising the rates and avoiding the fiscal cliff, where all tax cuts and brakes expire at the end of the year. that is an election, popular at the end of the year, certainly give president obama a lot of clout right now. you can disagree or agree with the policy. that is for you to decide. republican tom cole of oklahoma happens to disagree strongly. at the same time, he recognizes the political reality that all tax cuts will expire on january one, and no one wants to raise taxes on what would amount to 98% of all the taxpayers. >> in my view, we agree we're not going to raise taxes on people that make more than $250,000, we should just take them out of this discuss right now. continue to fight against any rate increases and continue to fight for a much bigger deal. >> congressman cole joins us, the staunchly conservative editorial page of "the wall street journal is on board now. president obama's re-election means that taxes for upper income earners are going up one way or another. the question is how republicans should hand
obama and the democrats get their way, doing the deal to avoid raising the rates and avoiding the fiscal cliff, where all tax cuts and brakes expire at the end of the year. that is an election, popular at the end of the year, certainly give president obama a lot of clout right now. you can disagree or agree with the policy. that is for you to decide. republican tom cole of oklahoma happens to disagree strongly. at the same time, he recognizes the political reality that all tax cuts will expire...
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obama and the democrats get their way, doing a deal to raise just those rates would avoid the fiscal cliff, where all bush era tax cuts on all tack tax brackets expire at the ends of the year. the election, popular opinion and more give president obama a lot of clout right now. and you can agree or disagree with the president's policy. that's for you to decide. republican congressmen tom cole of oklahoma disagrees stronsly. at the same time, he recognizes the political reality that all tax cuts will expire on january 1st and no one wants to raise taxes on what would amount to 98% of all taxpayers. >> in my view, we all agree that we're not going to raise taxes on people that make less than $250,000. we should just take them out of discussion right now. continue to fight against any rate increases, continue to try to work honestly for a much bigger deal. >> congressman cole joins us shortly. a rock rib conservative. chair of the national republican congressional committee, and he's no longer a lone voice in the wilderness. the staunchly conservative editorial page of "the wall street
obama and the democrats get their way, doing a deal to raise just those rates would avoid the fiscal cliff, where all bush era tax cuts on all tack tax brackets expire at the ends of the year. the election, popular opinion and more give president obama a lot of clout right now. and you can agree or disagree with the president's policy. that's for you to decide. republican congressmen tom cole of oklahoma disagrees stronsly. at the same time, he recognizes the political reality that all tax cuts...
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. >> reporter: and of course, going off the so-called fiscal cliff means a tax hike for everybody who does have a job. treasury secretary timothy geithner said the president is absolutely welling to go off the cliff unless republicans agree to raise tax rates. >> there is no prospect for an agreement that doesn't involve the rates going up on the top 2% of the wealthiest. only 2%. >> reporter: on that no progress. >> where are the specifics? where are the discussions? nothing is going on. >> reporter: there have been no real talks between the white house and republicans for a week, but the president and the speaker of the house spoke via telephone. neither side would give any details about what was said. the stock market closed higher with traders optimistic a deal will be reached. jonathan karl, abc new, washington. >>> amazing a phone call can calm the markets. impressive here. what i thought was interesting. we talked how the house is scheduled to go on vacation the 14th of the month. so actually there is a tighter deadline than the 31st. apparently, house majority leader eric kant
. >> reporter: and of course, going off the so-called fiscal cliff means a tax hike for everybody who does have a job. treasury secretary timothy geithner said the president is absolutely welling to go off the cliff unless republicans agree to raise tax rates. >> there is no prospect for an agreement that doesn't involve the rates going up on the top 2% of the wealthiest. only 2%. >> reporter: on that no progress. >> where are the specifics? where are the discussions?...
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cliff, six out of ten voters in november said the tax rates should go up, how much longer can he afford to politically keep this pledge and he said look, you heard it there, the rates when we close the revenues, loopholes will go up on the rich people. that still is the mindset. what's interesting, is talking to republicans leaving the house conference gop conference this morning, there is a lot of support for speaker boehner. there aren't cracks like there were during the debt limit where he had a faction that was lining up against him wholeheartedly. even after yesterday we heard all the stuff of fallout from the conservative right against his position, that conference this morning was pretty supportive of speaker boehner and seem to be -- say something we say way too often here in washington, d.c., doubling down on the speaker's approach, at least here in early december. >> everyone seems to be doubling down, luke. i mean the idea that now nobodies's moving at all. i thought it was interesting that boehner is adopting the rhetoric kind of fairness saying we're going to -- won't say t
cliff, six out of ten voters in november said the tax rates should go up, how much longer can he afford to politically keep this pledge and he said look, you heard it there, the rates when we close the revenues, loopholes will go up on the rich people. that still is the mindset. what's interesting, is talking to republicans leaving the house conference gop conference this morning, there is a lot of support for speaker boehner. there aren't cracks like there were during the debt limit where he...
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cliff standoff. he put his foot down on what is negotiable and what is not. >> we have to say the rates on the top 2% go up. and we're not going to get a deal without it. understand the reason for that. it's not me being stubborn. it's not me being partisan. it's just a matter of math. i'm happy to entertain other ideas the republicans may present, but we are not going to cut our way to prosperity or cut our way out of the deficit problem we have. >> so, are we on the verge of something big, something that could really change our politics? joining me now, senator barbara boxer, democrat from california and whip of the senate. thank you for being on the show. >> i love being on your show. thank you. >> if the gop agrees to tax increases, how important might that be in terms of showing they actually are capable of working with the president? >> you know, the way they raised the question, if they agree to tax increases, they claim they're willing to do these loop-hole closers but the difference here is
cliff standoff. he put his foot down on what is negotiable and what is not. >> we have to say the rates on the top 2% go up. and we're not going to get a deal without it. understand the reason for that. it's not me being stubborn. it's not me being partisan. it's just a matter of math. i'm happy to entertain other ideas the republicans may present, but we are not going to cut our way to prosperity or cut our way out of the deficit problem we have. >> so, are we on the verge of...
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. >>> as the country edges closer to the fiscal cliff, both sides are digging in their heels on a major sticking point. tax rates for the wealthy. treasury secretary timothy geithner making the rounds on the sunday morning talk shows today, and once again, made it clear that white house will reject any deal that does not let the bush tax cuts expire for high earners. >> if republicans are not willing to let rates go back up, and we think they should go back to the clinton levels, at a time when the american economy was to be exceptionally well, then there will not be an agreement. >> joining me, former pennsylvania governor and nbc news political analyst, ed rendell and the co-chair of the campaign to fix the debt here in new york, republican strategist, susan purcell. good afternoon to both of you. governor we'll start with you, both sides seem to be standing firm over what they want out of the fiscal cliff deal this morning. this is what house speaker john boehner said about the state of the negotiations. take a listen. >> i think they're -- they won the election, they must have forgo
. >>> as the country edges closer to the fiscal cliff, both sides are digging in their heels on a major sticking point. tax rates for the wealthy. treasury secretary timothy geithner making the rounds on the sunday morning talk shows today, and once again, made it clear that white house will reject any deal that does not let the bush tax cuts expire for high earners. >> if republicans are not willing to let rates go back up, and we think they should go back to the clinton levels,...
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i think the fiscal cliff is just a big red herring to get rid of the social programs. i have read this in the constitution. your district has the shortest life span in the country, the highest infant mortality rate for children, the highest per capita for people without health insurance, and we follow mississippi. they are ahead of us in that area. i think that is where you are leading the country. if the people of the united states want to see where you and the republican party have taken the country, come and look at your district. >> guest: i would be delighted for people to look at my district. i think it's a great district. 14,000 farms and ranchers to tremendous military installations. you're right next to the field artillery. the colleges and universities, 11 indian tribes and about every ten years or so the best college team in america. it's a special place pitted i would argue with your statistics, but -- i do think i would reflect what people in my district think. i won the election with 68% of the vote and as you were kind enough to point out, i'm saying the
i think the fiscal cliff is just a big red herring to get rid of the social programs. i have read this in the constitution. your district has the shortest life span in the country, the highest infant mortality rate for children, the highest per capita for people without health insurance, and we follow mississippi. they are ahead of us in that area. i think that is where you are leading the country. if the people of the united states want to see where you and the republican party have taken the...
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well, the easiest way to end the uncertainty about the fiscal cliff and tax rates and their potential impact of the vast majority of americans as they go into this vital holiday shopping season that's pretty central to our economy is for us to pass that and say okay, that part of this is over. the $2,000 on average tax hike that most working families are facing, if we go over the cliff done, taken care of. now, let's work through the balance of increased revenue on the high income earners and spending cuts that we need to get done to achieve a roughly $4 trillion savings. >> bill: and closing loopholes and other issues. >> that's a difficult process. there's lots of detail to it. in my view, there's two bad outcomes here that are quite possible. first is we do nothing. which is -- something we seem to have shown some real capability of. but if we go over the if is cal cliff, which is really more of a slope than a cliff. it is not like y2k where january 1, everybody has a dramatic cuts in services and dramatic increases in taxes. that will smooth in over time. that will happen over som
well, the easiest way to end the uncertainty about the fiscal cliff and tax rates and their potential impact of the vast majority of americans as they go into this vital holiday shopping season that's pretty central to our economy is for us to pass that and say okay, that part of this is over. the $2,000 on average tax hike that most working families are facing, if we go over the cliff done, taken care of. now, let's work through the balance of increased revenue on the high income earners and...
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that seems unlikely to be changed as part of the fiscal cliff negotiations. you'll still see that surtax on top of that. host: this from twitter. guest: i leave that as it is. host: is that how much it could go up? guest: yes. host: currently it is 35%. go ahead, mark. caller: the previous caller mentioned capital gains -- the recent point about the medicare surcharge to pay for the affordable care act. if he thought it could be a solution to kill both of those birds with one stone. guest: i'm not a health-care expert. host: no problem. we have this from twitter. guest: i believe that is the case. tom in california, go ahead. caller: i have several issues with the estate tax. i am a farmer if it comes back to the normal 1 million exemptions. we work together to build this estate. it wasn't just my parents but it is in my parents' name. i have to pay tax to something i have contributed to. host: help people understand how farmers fall into this estate tax? how is it your estate is worth more than $1 million? caller: we have about 1,000 acres in sonoma county,
that seems unlikely to be changed as part of the fiscal cliff negotiations. you'll still see that surtax on top of that. host: this from twitter. guest: i leave that as it is. host: is that how much it could go up? guest: yes. host: currently it is 35%. go ahead, mark. caller: the previous caller mentioned capital gains -- the recent point about the medicare surcharge to pay for the affordable care act. if he thought it could be a solution to kill both of those birds with one stone. guest: i'm...
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. >>> starbucks' ceo howard schultz has some sobering advice to offer on that looming fiscal cliff. he says consequences will be far worse than last year's debt ceiling fight, when the u.s. credit rating was downgraded for the first time ever. if a deal is not reached, he told our poppy harlow, the ripple effect will be felt worldwide. >> this single issue has a seismic effect on the rest of the world, that we have never been as connected and the domino effect of a bad outcome here will have significant negative consequences, domestically and around the world. >>> take a minute to come over to your tv, if you can. penn state has another pr problem on its hands this morning. the university's kai omega sorority is being investigated for stereotyping latinos after a picture showed up on the site tumblr. the photo showed sorority members wearing fake mustaches and dressed in somberos while holding signs that say, "i don't cut grass, i smoke it." the president of the chapter has apologized. is that enough, soledad? >> ladies, as your multi-ethnic friend, let me help you. help me help you
. >>> starbucks' ceo howard schultz has some sobering advice to offer on that looming fiscal cliff. he says consequences will be far worse than last year's debt ceiling fight, when the u.s. credit rating was downgraded for the first time ever. if a deal is not reached, he told our poppy harlow, the ripple effect will be felt worldwide. >> this single issue has a seismic effect on the rest of the world, that we have never been as connected and the domino effect of a bad outcome...
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now, you are, i think, correct in the second piece of the fiscal cliff. that is the tax rates that will apply next year. arguably, you don't have to take action this year, you have the whole of next year during which you can reach resolution to that issue. now, the only reason why i think that's an extraordinarily bad idea is i think it would be viewed quite unfavorably by the financial markets. and so you could see a reaction. and it is really bad tax policy to be legislating in the middle of the tax year on the basic structure of the income tax for that year. >> host: we'll go to jeff in tampa, florida, independent caller. >> caller: good morning, how you doing? >> host: good morning, sir. >> caller: yes, i have a question for mr. buckley, and this is more -- it may be a little generic, but something that a couple of my friends and i have talked about and just trying a basic understanding of. instead of having an income tax, has there ever been any discussion about having a national or a federal sales tax to help offset so this way everyone from the ric
now, you are, i think, correct in the second piece of the fiscal cliff. that is the tax rates that will apply next year. arguably, you don't have to take action this year, you have the whole of next year during which you can reach resolution to that issue. now, the only reason why i think that's an extraordinarily bad idea is i think it would be viewed quite unfavorably by the financial markets. and so you could see a reaction. and it is really bad tax policy to be legislating in the middle of...
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let's talk about the fiscal cliff. the president says the republicans have to agree to raising the marginal tax rate for the wealthiest top 2% from 35%. does he mean it has to go back up to 39.6% as was the case during the clinton administration or is there some wiggle room in between 35% and 39.6%? >> the president has repeatedly said there's room for compromise. but what this boils down to is a matter of fairness and a matter of math. giving certainty to the middle class is essential. there's no way mathematically, if you look at the republican's proposal, that you can get to the deficit reduction that we need to with preserving the middle class tax cuts by not increasing as the republicans refuse to do the upper tier rates. there's room for discussion, but that -- >> so the 39.6%, that's not a red line? >> as far as i know and the conversations i've had, the president has said there's room for compromise, but for the red line to be drawn in the sand by republicans to say that an increase in rates on the wealthiest a
let's talk about the fiscal cliff. the president says the republicans have to agree to raising the marginal tax rate for the wealthiest top 2% from 35%. does he mean it has to go back up to 39.6% as was the case during the clinton administration or is there some wiggle room in between 35% and 39.6%? >> the president has repeatedly said there's room for compromise. but what this boils down to is a matter of fairness and a matter of math. giving certainty to the middle class is essential....
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. >> facing the prospect of going over the fiscal cliff or extending the lower tax rate and at the upper one, which would you choose? >> i will do everything i can to avoid putting the american economy and the american people through the fiasco of going over the fiscal cliff. [indiscernible] >> as i told the president a couple of weeks ago, there are a lot of things i have wanted in my life, but almost all of them had a price tag attached to them. if we're going to talk about the debt limit in this, there will be some price tag associated with it. >> are you standing by the dollar-for-dollar on spending cuts? >> i continue to believe that any increase on the debt limit has to be accompanied with spending reductions that meet or exceed it. or exceed it. >> thursday house minority leader nancy pelosi democrats are prepared to vote for middle class tax cuts for 98% of americans. these remarks came after democratic leaders came -- met. >> this doesn't have to be a cliff hanger. the president has his pen poised to sign a middle income tax cut. it has passed the senate and house democrats are
. >> facing the prospect of going over the fiscal cliff or extending the lower tax rate and at the upper one, which would you choose? >> i will do everything i can to avoid putting the american economy and the american people through the fiasco of going over the fiscal cliff. [indiscernible] >> as i told the president a couple of weeks ago, there are a lot of things i have wanted in my life, but almost all of them had a price tag attached to them. if we're going to talk about...
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fiscal cliff? guest: if we go off the cliff, the rate will go up to 39.6%. the low bracket will go away and the lowest tax bracket will be 15% if we go off the cliff. 15% to 39.6% if we go off the cliff. caller: what about the other rates? host: we have a question on twitter. guest: you don't pay taxes on losses. a you're making profits and picture up over $250,000, that could result in a tax increase that kicks you over $250,000. caller: we need jobs in this country. i hear all this money being talked. the average worker -- i am lucky i get 30 hours. they're cutting down to 20 hours at wal-mart. i had a good manager. i notice a woman comes in. she says we can get anybody to work. you talk about the tax credits. most of us have no chance of getting anything like that. this is too low republicans and democrats. fascism and communism, it was always party first. that's what our country has come to. we have to come together as true conservatives and true democrats and come together. guest: one of the b
fiscal cliff? guest: if we go off the cliff, the rate will go up to 39.6%. the low bracket will go away and the lowest tax bracket will be 15% if we go off the cliff. 15% to 39.6% if we go off the cliff. caller: what about the other rates? host: we have a question on twitter. guest: you don't pay taxes on losses. a you're making profits and picture up over $250,000, that could result in a tax increase that kicks you over $250,000. caller: we need jobs in this country. i hear all this money...
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is the administration prepared to go over the fiscal cliff? >> oh, absolutely. again, there's no prospect for an agreement that doesn't involve those rates going up on the top 2% of the wealthiest americans -- rr s -- rrm, it'emy 2%, it can't be solved. i think there's broad recognition of that reality now. >> okay, julia. see, this is the problem with men. on sunday morning geithner went on "meet the press" like they're going to cave. >> that's not good tactics for negotiations. >> get him out and get some women -- the congresswoman we had on the other day, the republican congresswoman, mcmorris rogers. sorry about that, really tired, she's fantastic. get her at the table more. get more women to the table because that's just not the way to negotiate. i agree with the administration's position on this. >> the treasury secretary yesterday goes oh, yeah. we can go over the fiscal cliff. >> don't you think that's going to make everybody feel really good, the markets. >> the republicans are doing the same thing. somebody has to be better. >> but the republicans don'
is the administration prepared to go over the fiscal cliff? >> oh, absolutely. again, there's no prospect for an agreement that doesn't involve those rates going up on the top 2% of the wealthiest americans -- rr s -- rrm, it'emy 2%, it can't be solved. i think there's broad recognition of that reality now. >> okay, julia. see, this is the problem with men. on sunday morning geithner went on "meet the press" like they're going to cave. >> that's not good tactics for...
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and you know, there are some taxes that would go up if we two off the fiscal cliff. you're talking about a family that makes about $50,000 having a tax increase of $4,000. melissa: congresswoman, this drives me crazy. when we look at all the numbers we immediately start taing about taxes. it seems like we're looking for revenue under every single rock. that's fine. even if we raised taxes that are proposed by the white house, it will raise $82 billion. it is one half of 1% of the problem. have a $16.3 trillion debt. all of this talk about raising taxes doesn't get us even close to solving the problem. it doesn't even start the conversation. it is not a drop in the bucket. we've got to reform our spending or grow the economy. but just raising taxes isn't going to do it. >> well, i agree with you 100%. that's why the president as well as the democrats have called for a balanced approach. so of course we can't raise enough taxes to completely deal witthe deficit. and you do have to do reforms. you need to reform the tax system. you certainly need to make additional cuts
and you know, there are some taxes that would go up if we two off the fiscal cliff. you're talking about a family that makes about $50,000 having a tax increase of $4,000. melissa: congresswoman, this drives me crazy. when we look at all the numbers we immediately start taing about taxes. it seems like we're looking for revenue under every single rock. that's fine. even if we raised taxes that are proposed by the white house, it will raise $82 billion. it is one half of 1% of the problem. have...
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cliff is avoided. unlikely, but a reflection of voter frustration as both sides dig in. the white house demanding higher tax rates for the top two tax brackets, and the republicans refusing. after rejecting the obama administration proposal last week, house republicans offered an outline for $2.2 trillion in deficit reduction, mostly through spending cuts. and while president obama would not answer questions about the counterproposal -- >> no deal better than a bad deal, sir? >> reporter: -- a senior white house official assailed it as a step backward, saying if republicans do not agree to some higher rates for wealthier taxpayer, the nation will go over the cliff, and the american people will hold the republicans responsible. wall street remains optimistic a deal will be struck. so the lack of progress is not yet resulted in a market plunge. but some economists estimate that because of the uncertainty posed by the fiscal cliff, at least 200,000 fewer jobs have been created this year. the official dead
cliff is avoided. unlikely, but a reflection of voter frustration as both sides dig in. the white house demanding higher tax rates for the top two tax brackets, and the republicans refusing. after rejecting the obama administration proposal last week, house republicans offered an outline for $2.2 trillion in deficit reduction, mostly through spending cuts. and while president obama would not answer questions about the counterproposal -- >> no deal better than a bad deal, sir? >>...
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if we go off the fiscal cliff and congress doesn't take any action to soften the blow, tax rates will go up quite a lot on dividends, from 15% to more than 40% in most circumstances. there are economists who think that will have a big impact on stock markets and they could go down 10%, maybe 20%. i do not think those effects are as strong as some economists believe. i think it is something the market could get over. you're in a long term tax and vanished savings situation. i think you are basically going to be fine unless you're planning on retiring release soon. i do think that is something you have to keep in mind. diversification out of the assets that are most affected by these kinds of taxes is probably never a bad idea. host: john mckinnon is a reporter for "the wall street journal." he is now in the washington bureau. he was a columnist for "the miami herald." what sectors would be hit harder if deductions and loopholes or taken out of the tax code? guest: the stocks that pay a high dividend. these tend to be utility stocks. there are lots of old, established, u.s. industrial f
if we go off the fiscal cliff and congress doesn't take any action to soften the blow, tax rates will go up quite a lot on dividends, from 15% to more than 40% in most circumstances. there are economists who think that will have a big impact on stock markets and they could go down 10%, maybe 20%. i do not think those effects are as strong as some economists believe. i think it is something the market could get over. you're in a long term tax and vanished savings situation. i think you are...
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the whole fiscal cliff is forcing them to do something. but you nailed it on the specifics. it is tax rates. the president has said that tax rates will go up for the wealthy. republicans won't bend on that. yesterday, john boehner said, we are at a stalemate. yes, this is posturing. yes, this is washington. we have four weeks to go. we're going to have ups and downs. >> ups and downs in the stock market, as well. david, thanks. have a great weekend. >> reporter: you, too. >>> now, to the star college basketball players accused of abusing their position as big men on campus. they're now facing burglary charges for allegedly stealing thousands of dollars of stuff from their fellow students. and abc's john muller is covering the story. john? >> reporter: good morning, dan. hofstra students say iphones, computers and even cash has been disappearing from their dormrooms all semester. one victim used an app to track down her stolen ipad. when the investigation unfolded, the staggering news. now, four players from the division-i basketball team are under arrest. faces, covered in s
the whole fiscal cliff is forcing them to do something. but you nailed it on the specifics. it is tax rates. the president has said that tax rates will go up for the wealthy. republicans won't bend on that. yesterday, john boehner said, we are at a stalemate. yes, this is posturing. yes, this is washington. we have four weeks to go. we're going to have ups and downs. >> ups and downs in the stock market, as well. david, thanks. have a great weekend. >> reporter: you, too....
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caller: looking at the we go back -- at the fiscal cliff, we go back to 2001 with the lowering of the tax rates, meant to create jobs. but in the past 10 or 11 years, we have not had any job creation whatsoever. we keep going back and hearing over and over again that it's going to cost jobs. we do not have jobs to begin with. businesses are out to make money. if consumers do not have money to spend, then you can lower their taxes to 0%. they still cannot spend because they do not have any income. guest: i think that is a great point. it brings up one thing we have not mentioned yet. the payroll tax cut is about to expire. if that expires, every paycheck in the country is going to go down about $1,000 on january 1st. that would hurt consumption. it would hurt the customers of businesses. the president has proposed to extend that. i think that is reasonable. we will see a firm public and keep up their opposition or they give in. we have a sleeper here that cannot be ignored. if we do not extend that, every paycheck in the country is going to go down. >> i agree -- guest: i agree. we sho
caller: looking at the we go back -- at the fiscal cliff, we go back to 2001 with the lowering of the tax rates, meant to create jobs. but in the past 10 or 11 years, we have not had any job creation whatsoever. we keep going back and hearing over and over again that it's going to cost jobs. we do not have jobs to begin with. businesses are out to make money. if consumers do not have money to spend, then you can lower their taxes to 0%. they still cannot spend because they do not have any...
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. >>> new movement this morning to try and avoid the fiscal cliff. some republicans are considering abandoning their staunch opposition to higher tax rates according to recent reports. alan simpson was co-chair on the commission of fiscal responsibility. he's a co-founder of fix the debt campaign and joins us now. senator simpson, good morning, it's great to see you. >> great pleasure to be off the witness protection program and come here. but what even more fun, david brubeck used to come to wyoming a great deal. he and his family, lovely people. i did not know he had passed. and to hear that music, it's iconic stuff. anyway. so it's good to sneak in and get made up, try to hide my identity. >> well, it's good to have you here. you say you're in the witness protection program because you've been out there on the issue of how we fix our national deficit. as you well know, we face the fiscal cliff, a series of tax hikes and spending cuts that many people think if they go into effect will put the country into recession. yet we heard the treasury secret
. >>> new movement this morning to try and avoid the fiscal cliff. some republicans are considering abandoning their staunch opposition to higher tax rates according to recent reports. alan simpson was co-chair on the commission of fiscal responsibility. he's a co-founder of fix the debt campaign and joins us now. senator simpson, good morning, it's great to see you. >> great pleasure to be off the witness protection program and come here. but what even more fun, david brubeck...
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cliff. but on capitol hill, talks there have pretty much hit an impasse at this point. neither republicans nor democrats seem willing to budge on the issue of tax rates for the wealthy. unless the two sides can reach some kind of deal, spending cuts and also tax hikes will collectively take effect starting january 1st. the clock is ticking. >> it is. >>> the united nations has overwhelmingly approved recognition of a palestinian state, a move staunchly opposed by the u.s. and israel. >> but in the west bank and gaza, palestinians, they celebrated on the streets. the historic vote upgrades palestine to nonmember nonvoting observer status only. meanwhile, u.s. ambassador, susan rice, she denounced the resolution. saying, quote, it's counterproductive to the goal of mideast peace. >> and the palestinian people will wake up tomorrow and find that little about their lives has changed, save that the prospects of a durable peace have only receded. >> rice added that the u.s. will continue to stand
cliff. but on capitol hill, talks there have pretty much hit an impasse at this point. neither republicans nor democrats seem willing to budge on the issue of tax rates for the wealthy. unless the two sides can reach some kind of deal, spending cuts and also tax hikes will collectively take effect starting january 1st. the clock is ticking. >> it is. >>> the united nations has overwhelmingly approved recognition of a palestinian state, a move staunchly opposed by the u.s. and...
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insult and finger pointing in the fiscal cliff debate. tax rates spike and spending slashed. congress is breaking for the holidays in two weeks. it could send the economy spinning in directions. $1.6 trillion in tax hikes. he will travel to pennsylvania to sell it to you. republicans aren't buying it. listen to house speaker, john boehner. >> despite the claims the president supports a balanced approach, the democrats have yet to get serious about real spending cuts. >> democrats are firing right back at boehner. harry reid getting a little personal. >> i don't understand his brain, so you should ask him. okay? >> ouch. athena jones live from washington. same old same old. where do we go from here? >> that's the big question. the nice talk after the election is pretty much gone away. you mentioned one of the big sticking points, that's taxes. republicans and democrats can't agree on how to raise the tax revenue? end the bush tax cuts for the wealthy, close the loopholes, raise the capital gains taxes or all of the above. right now, they can't agree on how much money should be
insult and finger pointing in the fiscal cliff debate. tax rates spike and spending slashed. congress is breaking for the holidays in two weeks. it could send the economy spinning in directions. $1.6 trillion in tax hikes. he will travel to pennsylvania to sell it to you. republicans aren't buying it. listen to house speaker, john boehner. >> despite the claims the president supports a balanced approach, the democrats have yet to get serious about real spending cuts. >> democrats...
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we are distracted by the fiscal cliff. let there be a economic growth. interest rates would go up. interest rates will stay reasonably low. we should be glad that we have this economy. either we really go down the cliff or let some growth kick in and indeeddwhat happens, interest rates will go up. ultimately, inflation is the road we will be heading on. dagen: is there anything you can look at today that shows interest rates will go up? >> what we know now is that the federal reserve no longer focuses on inflation, but on employment. that is why the unemployment rate will be ever more important today. next year, the federal reserve will be even more starvation -- we are going to push growth at any cost: the cost being inflation. at some point, the market will take point. we are going to have a lot of turmoil. we do not have a european crisis. we are certainly a candidate. higher rates will be in it. dagen: higher by how much quick select you have 1.6% on the ten year period >> in recent years, everyone has felt warm and fuzzy. let volatility go back to normal time. you do not need
we are distracted by the fiscal cliff. let there be a economic growth. interest rates would go up. interest rates will stay reasonably low. we should be glad that we have this economy. either we really go down the cliff or let some growth kick in and indeeddwhat happens, interest rates will go up. ultimately, inflation is the road we will be heading on. dagen: is there anything you can look at today that shows interest rates will go up? >> what we know now is that the federal reserve no...
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host: we have been focusing on different aspects of the fiscal cliff. we want to look at capital gains tax and the estate tax. what is the estate tax? guest: it goes back to history -- it was put in place to prevent the united states from developing an aristocracy. a tax on estates that are passed down to heirs. republicans called the death tax. they have characterized it as a bad thing. it has a lot of a populist opposition to it. george w. bush signed in a phase-out of the estate tax. the top rate stays at 55%. the exemption level started rising from $1 million and going up. it was repealed completely in 2010 for one year. then it sprang back to life as part of the extension of the bush tax cuts that president obama signed into law. you have a debate -- very few members dispute that it needs to be continued. the debate is over whether you continue it at the current level. there is an exemption level, $10 million for a couple. or at the white house would prefer a 45% rate. that is the debate right now. there's a split among democrats. the white house w
host: we have been focusing on different aspects of the fiscal cliff. we want to look at capital gains tax and the estate tax. what is the estate tax? guest: it goes back to history -- it was put in place to prevent the united states from developing an aristocracy. a tax on estates that are passed down to heirs. republicans called the death tax. they have characterized it as a bad thing. it has a lot of a populist opposition to it. george w. bush signed in a phase-out of the estate tax. the top...
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for them, $500 million. >>> let's get to the fiscal cliff. politico has an exclusive report that president obama and house speaker boehner had a television conversation. politico characterizes it as, quote, kurt. he wants the white house to move his position on tax rates, but the president won't budge. the president responded to the house speaker according to politico telling him, if he has an alternative plan he ought to put that forward rather than focusing on entitlements. meanwhile the white house will send tim geithner to the white house for meetings with republican and democratic conditioningal leaders. yesterday the president met with big ceo's from goldman sachs, at&t, cater pillar, many who said after the meeting they've merged hoping a deal could be struck to avoid the fiscal cliff. in another meeting president obama said he believes the framework for a deal could be in place before christmas. >> i'll go anywhere and i'll do whatever it takes to get this done. it's too important for washington to screw this up. now is the time for u
for them, $500 million. >>> let's get to the fiscal cliff. politico has an exclusive report that president obama and house speaker boehner had a television conversation. politico characterizes it as, quote, kurt. he wants the white house to move his position on tax rates, but the president won't budge. the president responded to the house speaker according to politico telling him, if he has an alternative plan he ought to put that forward rather than focusing on entitlements. meanwhile...
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. >> based on the procespect of going over the fiscal cliff which you just called serious business or extending the lower tax rates and not the upper ones, which one would you choose? >> i'm going to do everything i can to avoid putting the american economy, the american people through the fiasco of going over the fiscal cliff. >> which is worse, though, for the economy? >> -- the balance that you talked about, could you include the debt limit increase in the overall package? >> as i told the president a couple weeks ago, there are a lot of things i've wanted in my life, but almost all of them had a price tag attached to them. and if we're going to talk about the debt limit in this, then there's going to be shall price tag associated with it. >> last question. >> are you standing by your dollar for dollar for cuts? >> i tip to believe any increase in the debt limit has to be accompanied by spending reductions that meet or exceed it. >> thank you. >>> all right. listening to speaker john boehner there after his meeting with tim geithner. coming out -- didn't hear it right off the top,
. >> based on the procespect of going over the fiscal cliff which you just called serious business or extending the lower tax rates and not the upper ones, which one would you choose? >> i'm going to do everything i can to avoid putting the american economy, the american people through the fiasco of going over the fiscal cliff. >> which is worse, though, for the economy? >> -- the balance that you talked about, could you include the debt limit increase in the overall...